 | Past tense / perfective of passive verbs |
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Although I still have a long way to go until the finish line, I already found out from different forum posts that the past tense of verbs in passive forms (έρχομαι, κοιμούμαι, ντύνομαι, etc.) will not be introduced in a general way in this course (except for giving the past of a few specific verbs, like κάθισα). Is there an on-line source that explains how the past of passive verbs is formed? Perhaps something comparable to lessons 66-68? I was not able to find anything. I understand that there is probably no simple rule, but some guidelines, like in lessons 66-68 would be most useful. |
| Re: Past tense / perfective of passive verbs |
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I seem to remember that the various lesson-specific forums did have some general discussion about the aorist and imperfect tense of passive and deponent verbs. From there you might be able to glean some info. As for a comprehensive online resource for the past tense of passive verbs, I don't know any. I can try to sum things up here, but I have to warn you that the formation of the past tense of passive verbs is even more complicated than the formation of the past tense of active verbs. First, let's get the easy ones out of the way: the continuous subjunctive and the imperfect. As with active verbs, the continuous subjunctive (and thus the continuous future) of passive verbs is identical to the present tense. As for the imperfect, it is formed using special endings added to the same stem as the present tense. There are a few sets of those endings, but when you know the endings used in the present tense, you usually know which ones will be used in the imperfect tense (there are exceptions though). So, when a verb has passive endings in -ομαι (as all stem-stressed verbs do), its imperfect endings will be: -όμουν(α) -όσουν(α) -όταν(ε) -όμαστε/-όμασταν -όσαστε/-όσασταν -ονταν/-όντανε/-όντουσαν Yeah, all those alternatives are valid! When a verb has passive endings in -ιέμαι (as αγαπάω/αγαπιέμαι does), its imperfect endings will normally be: -ιόμουν(α) -ιόσουν(α) -ιόταν(ε) -ιόμαστε/-ιόμασταν -ιόσαστε/-ιόσασταν -ιόνταν(ε)/-ιούνταν/-ιόντουσαν Once again, all alternatives are valid and in use. Other verbs can be complicated, but their endings often look like one of those two lists. Verbs with a present passive in -ούμαι will have passive imperfect endings in -ούμουν (usually lacking the 2nd person singular and plural). Verbs in -άμαι will have the same endings as verbs in -ομαι, but with the stress always on the ending, even in the 3rd person plural -όνταν. Finally, you've got weird endings like 3rd person singular -είτο and 3rd person plural -ούντο, but those are very rare and literary. For the passive aorist, the passive non-continuous subjunctive and the passive non-continuous future, you need to know that those use a different stem, different both from the present stem and from the active aorist stem. While there are some rules for deriving this stem when you know the present and the active aorist stem, they are as full of exceptions as the rules for deriving the active aorist stem. Generally, like the aorist stem is normally marked by an -σ- element (sometimes hidden as -ψ- or -ξ-, sometimes not there as the aorist stem is irregular), the passive aorist stem is normally marked by a -θ-, -στ-, -χτ- or -φτ- element, and more rarely by a -π- element (you may sometimes see a -χθ- or -φθ- element. Those are literary formed derived from the Katharevousa, which normally always have a more common alternative in -χτ- or -φτ-). The rules can be complex, so it's better to learn the passive aorist stem by heart with whichever verb you're learning. Still, here are a few rules you can start with: - verbs with an aorist stem showing a naked -σ- after a vowel will normally form their passive aorist stem by replacing it with -θ- (especially verbs with an aorist in -ησ-), although some use -στ- instead. - verbs with an aorist in -ξ- will normally form their passive aorist in -χτ-. - verbs with an aorist in -ψ- will usually form their passive aorist in -φτ-, more rarely in -π-. Just like with active aorist stems, irregular passive aorist stems are common, so be careful not to overuse those rules. Once you have the passive aorist stem, conjugation becomes relatively simple: - the passive aorist tense uses the same endings as the active aorist tense, as well as the same stress rule (stress always on the antepenultimate syllable). However, it also adds an element -ηκ- between the stem and the ending. So, using the verb αγαπάω (active aorist αγάπησα), whose passive aorist stem is αγαπηθ-, you get: αγαπήθηκα αγαπήθηκες αγαπήθηκε αγαπηθήκαμε αγαπηθήκατε αγαπήθηκαν/αγαπηθήκανε This is true of any verb with a passive aorist tense (be careful, quite a few deponent verbs have *active* aorist tenses). - the passive non-continuous future and subjunctive add the same endings as μπορώ directly to the passive aorist stem. So you get: θα/να αγαπηθώ θα/να αγαπηθείς θα/να αγαπηθεί θα/να αγαπηθούμε θα/να αγαπηθείτε θα/να αγαπηθούν(ε) That's about all I can say about the past tenses of passive verbs. The most complicated thing is to get the passive aorist stem, so I advise you to learn it with the verb. You can also use resources like http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/home.html to get a comprehensive set of conjugations, although that site is so information-heavy you sometimes miss the forest for the trees. |
| Re: Past tense / perfective of passive verbs |
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Thank you , Christophe, this reply was quite useful. I was trying to read Greek: a comprehensive grammar of the modern language on Google Books, but unfortunately only a few pages may be viewed before reaching a limit. So, as I understand, to "know" a Greek verb in practice, one must learn the following: 1. active imperfective stem (and, if stressed on the last syllable, whether it has the -άς/ά or the -είς/εί type conjugation in II/III pers. sg.) 2. active perfective stem (although often derivable by inserting the -σ- and applying some sound change rules, quite messy) 3. passive perfective stem (apparently even more messy) From this information, all forms of the verb are usually derivable. And then there are the few oddball verbs, which have a slightly different conjugation (λέω, πάω), or the relation between the past and present perfective stems is not obvious (βρίσκω - βρήκα - θα βρω), or, as you said, those that have unusual endings in the passive past continuous (though I haven't had to deal with that tense yet). These will require a little more attention to learn. Does this sound right, or are there some important points that I missed? When we speak fluently, most of the time our brains seem to work by recalling many specific patterns that were memorized, rather than applying a precise set of rules. Yet the regularities are there. Perhaps I'm a bit too analytical-minded, but I find it helpful to be aware of these "laws" governing the language, so when my brain fails to recall the right word form automatically, there's a crutch to lean on. |
| Re: Past tense / perfective of passive verbs |
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To know a verb in Greek, one has to learn to so-called "principal parts". Once you know these, you are supposedly able to derive everything else. Those parts are traditionally: - the first person singular indicative present active (which gives you the active imperfective stem). Make a habit of learning it with the -άω ending when valid and you will immediately know whether the verb has an -άς or -είς conjugation type. - the first person singular indicative aorist active (which gives you the active perfective stem). - the first person singular indicative aorist passive (which gives you the passive perfective stem). - the perfective participle (which is mostly used as an adjective). But indeed, for many verbs it's not quite enough unless you know by heart all the available patterns. So to those I usually add the following: - the first person singular indicative present passive (so that I know which passive endings are used in the present). - the first person singular indicative imperfect passive (for the same reason). - the first person singular subjunctive perfective active (when it's not exactly the same stem as the aorist). - the first person singular subjunctive perfective passive (for the same reason). - the second person singular perfective imperative, both active and passive (those are not always directly inferable from the aorist). With all these, I usually can conjugate any verb to any voice-aspect-tense-mood combination, whether they are regular or irregular. |
