 | nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
| what is ths diffrence between these? it makes me really mad and i can't figure it out. |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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Basically, the diferences are : 1. Nominative is the subject in a phrase 2. Accusative is the object of the verb 3. Genitive is the possessive case 4. Vocative is used, for example, to call somebody |
 | Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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You're not alone when it comes to difficulty in understanding this. Although it is alien to speakers of modern English, Old English (Anglo-Saxon) did have this aspect. This was a huge problem for me when I learned German (which lacks a vocative case, but has a dative). I'll try to break it down as easily as possible. Nominative: You already know it. Save for a simple example to prove you do, we don't need to go into detail: The man ate the potato. Here, 'the man' is in the nominative (the one performing the action "ate"). Accusative: Here's where it can get tricky in Greek and other languages. Here's our example once again: The man ate the potato. 'The potato' is in the accusative. Why? Because it the thing being eaten, e.g. the object of the verb. Let's look at the same example in Greek: Ο άντρας έτρωγε την πατάτα. Now, the article for πατάτα is normally η, but since the potato is the object being eaten by the man (nominative), η becomes την to show accusative status. Get it? Genitive: This can be a very easy case to learn if you associate it with the English " 's" or "of". It is simply the possesive. For example: The man's potato: Η πατάτα του άντρου. This literally translates to "the potato of the man", which although sounds strange to us, it would be understood. The hardest part of this case and the accusative is probably learning how to change the words to agree. Understanding the cases is not too difficult. Vocative: Well, I believe this case is rare in languages (does anyone have any info on other languages with a vocative case?). It is limited to and only used when calling a person. And, if I recall correctly, there is only noticeable change in the masculine gender. For example, you're walking down the street in Greece and see your friend Νίκος but he doesn't see you and you want to get his attention, so you call out his name. But before you holler out Νίκος, you must know what Νίκος is in the vocative case. That is Νίκο. So you yell "Νίκο!", you get his attention, and you go have an ouzo together. Once again, the hardest part is learning how to alter the words for the case. Well, I hope I cleared some things up for you. Keep at it, and you'll soon forget you didn't understand it. -Michael Woodcox |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
Very well explained actually! I just wanted to say congratulations for your brilliant explanation about the inflections in Greek. You managed to explain about the cases in a very clear way! I have to say that for me it became one of the most complicated sections when starting learning Greek... but we have to come over it to go on, dont we? See you! Eva |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
| You made me curious, so in a brief search for another language with a vocative case, I found Sansiboli which is some language of India that's not used very much at all. There are probably others, but one's enough for me. |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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English pronouns actually decline in three of these cases: nominative: he genitive: his accusative: him (no example for vocative) PS: Latin has the vocative case (although it is often the same as the nominative case, it is not always). |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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Oh, Irish Gaelic also has the vocative case (that just occurred to me). I can't spell in Gaelic, so this is terribly spelt: Patrick = (sounds like) Podrick Patrick in vocative = (sounds like) Fodrick I wonder if Slavic languages have vocative ? |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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Yes, many slavic languages have vocative (as far as I remember, Russian doesn't have it). Serbian language, for example, has seven cases (4 mentioned above plus dative, instrumental and locative. |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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Ancient russian had a vocative case. And many linguists believe that it's present in modern. For example, my name is Tanya. But if someone wants to call me, he usually speaks "Tan'" instead of "Tanya". |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
| In french there is accusative, which is (for any of you who speaks french) le complement d'objet direct ou indirect. |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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I wouldn't say that French has an accusative. Although it does have a direct object, the form of the word does not change. The only thing that indicates the direct object is the word order, just as the case of English, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and, I imagine other Romance languages (although English is not a Romance language). In French, for example, if I say "The boy is tall" or "I see the boy", "the boy" remains the same: (1) Le garcon est grand. (2) Je vois le garcon. Le garcon remains the same, even though (1) is the subject ('nominative') and (2) is the direct object ('accusative'). Normally when you talk about cases in langauges (e.g., Latin, Greek, German), you have different forms of the words in different cases. |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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Hello Michael, Portuguese has vocative.In terms of grammar is a very difficult idiom.I mean, even more than Greek.I'm from Brazil and I haven't learn everything about Portuguese! Brilliant explanation! Maria |
| More accusative case |
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Michael Woodcox has done a brillant job of explaining the cases except in one respect The problem for me and I expect other students is where the accusative case starts with the first word of the sentence eg poiov [Whom ] or where the accusative occurs at the end or middle of the sentence because of the loose way Greek sentences can be constructed Unfortunately, the sentence structure used by Michael and used by standard textbooks is ALWAYS the easy structure i.e. subject +object Never the other way round !!! Anyone got any ideas on explaining SIMPLY the other way round and middle sentence structures |
| Re: More accusative case |
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When I was a kid, the teacher taught us the easier way to put any noun in any case you want. My mothertongue is Russian and we have 6 cases. Until now if I need to put a word in some case I will use a certain phrase. In case with our Greek language I suggest the following: to spiti tou (thn)... (to spiti twn an8rwpwn, to spiti tou dromou). genitive case. It really does not matter if the house might belong to a fingernail, or to a shoe. Just a grammar construction. blepw ton an8ropo, to dromo for the accusative case. I remember when the teacher used to ask any kid to change some word, for example "cat", the kid would get up and start saying: Nominative: the cat. Genitive: no cat. Dative: gave to a cat. Accusative: I see a cat. and so on. So try saying to yourselves: Cat's house I see a cat. May be this will help. |
| Feels good to be back... |
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Hey everybody. I have finally returned from a hectic year of school, work, etc...and it feels good to be back. I'm so surprised that I helped so much and I appreciate the compliments. I sadly haven't had much time for Greek *tear* and have forgot a lot. But I plan to come back strong and can say that I am glad to be a part of this community! Now down to business. Mr. Rees mentioned the word order with cases. It is easy to recognize the accusative (or another case, for that matter) no matter where it is in the sentence. This is because you must alter the words to make them agree. Look at my original example: Ο άντρας έτρωγε την πατάτα. The man ate the potato. Now if we were to change this sentence to be: Την πατάτα έτρωγε o άντρας, it looks like "The potato ate the man". However, we see that the potato is "την πατάτα" and not "η πατάτα". This means that it is accusative and is still the direct object of the sentence, i.e. it is still being eaten. Another way of writing it would be: Έτρωγε o άντρας την πατάτα. It may take some practice, but once you are able to spot what has been changed, it will make a heck of a lot more sense. |
| Re: nominative, genitive, accusative, vocative |
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One of the best explanations/examples of the cases that I know of is one which I found in a Latin book that I was learning from... The explanation involves the pronouns in English; while normal nouns (Proper or otherwise) such as "house" or "door" do not change according to placement, the word "he" changes... Nominative: he (He saw me) Genitive: his (I am his friend) Accusative: him (I saw him) Vocative doesn't occur in English, but I've heard it's closely related to phrases you rarely see in English... "Oh " and the like. |
