 | charin vs charitos |
| Would someone explain to me the difference between these two? |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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These are simply caseforms of the feminine noun η χάρις -- grace, favor. Here's its declension in the singular. (The old Classical dative is also given below for reference.) nominative: χάρις genitive: χάριτος (dative): (χάριτι) accusative: χάριν (also χάριτα) Regards, Greg Brush |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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thank you, Greg I had some sort of brain-pause yesterday - I was imagining them both genitive - even with them clearly marked - so NATURALLY I was puzzled. DUH! [Although now I have before me two acc. forms, as listed above.  ] And even though I will probably never have any use for modern Greek grammer, I am curious regarding the lack of a dative form. Would you take the time to enlighten me? By the way, do you know of a parsed NT and/or LXX available in printed form? Thanks again, Dot |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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The normal accusative form of χάρις is χάριν, certainly in NT writing. I listed the alternative χάριτα only because it appears in Liddell-Scott's Lexicon, meaning that it was found in some ancient writing(s) somewhere. Modern Demotic Greek no longer has a dative case, although a few fossilized expressions remain which use the ancient dative form. The functions of the Classical dative were taken over largely by the genitive case or, to a lesser extent, by the accusative case. I've never seen a Septuagint in printed form -- even in a large city like Los Angeles, this is an extremely esoteric and specialized subject, so such a book would simply not be carried in major retail bookstores. As to a parsed NT (or Septuagint for that matter), you might want to check with Christian bookstores carrying Biblical works, or with online booksellers like www.amazon.com or www.barnesandnoble.com. Regards, Greg Brush |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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Greg Thanks for the info. I have tried bookstores - Christian and the well-known - which do not have them. I had heard that the Greek Orthodox were working on parsing the LXX. I have a couple of parsed NTs on my computer, but cannot find a printed version, even from this source. Hoped maybe you had 'insider' info - didn't hurt to try. Appreciate your time, Dot |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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The lesson content of Learn Greek Online is spoken Modern (Demotic) Greek. I personally have a background in Classical Greek, which has been very helpful in understanding some grammatical features of the modern language; however, I suspect that very few students at this course will be familiar with, or have any background in, Classical (Attic) or NT (koine) Greek. Because of the manufacturing costs for print publications associated with an extremely small market, the type of materials you are looking for are now almost invariably published on CD-ROM. My suggestion is to check out what is available in this format. Even though it is not hardbound print, at least these types of materials are available on CD through online outlets. If I should come across anything further about print versions of parsed NT or LXX, I'll post a further reply to your original question. Regards, Greg Brush |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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The dative case was just anothet "victim" of the simplification of the Greek language during the time Greece was part of the Ottoman Empire alhtough even during the Byzantine times the general populace did not use it much or at all as is evident in folksongs and poems of the period. I don't think I can help with your other question I'm afraid |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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Irene - Thanks for the info. (One can learn something new everyday.) I only have a minute understanding of Greek, but it did seem odd to me that the genetive would be used rather than the acc. for the dative in modern Greek. Ah well, I'm having enough 'fun' with classic Greek. I'll never live long enough to 'get' it, let alone move on. Thanks, Dot |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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Hi Dot, Like Greg, my background is in classical Greek and I've been using for years a fantastic online resource called Perseus. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ It has digital versions of practically every classical text, including the koine NT and the LXX. Each word is linked to an entry to a Greek Lexicon (Liddell and Scott) and is fully analysed.(For example a noun will give you case, number and gender as it occurs in the text). I hope this helps. Best wishes, Jim |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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Hello, Jim Thank you. I found the Perseus site years ago and used it 'religiously' for years as they had a NT, (although only the W/H text). Using it forced me to learn, because I had to look up all the abbreviations and get definitions. Now, because I'm always having trouble with this darn computer, I mostly rely on the parsed texts I downloaded free online. It's easier, too. As you have probably figured, I study the NT. I always check Liddell and Scott on definitions because, unfortunately, I often find biblical lexicons to have doctrinal bias. That is also why I ask questions on secular Greek sites. I'll have to look for classical Greek sites with people as friendly and willing to help as all of you seem to be. (Can you recommend one?) I've had many questions over the years - (not usually as 'duh' and dull as the one I asked here) - regarding points of grammer. Some have become clear as I understand more. If I run across any more, I'll check with all of you first. Thanks again to all of you for your time. Dot |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
| dot I'm afraid I can't help you with sites. However, since I am a teacher of Classical Greek (actually Greek in all its forms), I will be glad to help you |
| Re: charin vs charitos |
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That would be wonderful, Irene. Should I send my questions here to the site? or would you prefer I emailed them to you personally? I'll try not to take up much of your time. |
